top of page

(S2E4) Transcript: Lessons Learned: A Nonprofit Director's Reflections on Overcoming Burnout

1

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400

So welcome to the meaningful jobs podcast season two. I'm Adrian, your host. And today,


2

00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,760

we are so glad to welcome Dorcas to our podcast. How are you Dorcas?


3

00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,280

I'm good. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.


4

00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:18,960

Thank you. Thanks so much. So, yeah, I think the reason why, you know, I was, you know,


5

00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:25,040

really interested in having you in our podcast is because I was doing some research online. I saw


6

00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:33,280

PZ wrote about spirituality and how it ties in with the perks that Silicon Valley companies are


7

00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:42,080

offering to employees nowadays. So, you know, before we dive into, you know, deeper topics like


8

00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:47,680

meaning of work and so on, could you maybe give us a brief overview about your career? Because I think


9

00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:55,760

you got into communications and you are an entrepreneur as well. So, yes, yes. So I've done


10

00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,560

a few different things, had a few different careers as I'm running people. I actually started out in


11

00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:07,920

the nonprofit sector just felt real love for social justice and trying to address social challenges.


12

00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,680

So for a number of years, I worked for different nonprofits doing community development, youth


13

00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,640

leadership, volunteer recruitment, affordable housing. And then a little later on, I moved into


14

00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:25,680

the social enterprise space. So my husband is the co-founder of a social enterprise called Delight,


15

00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,880

which creates solar powered products for families without access to electricity and developing


16

00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,800

countries. So he and I actually moved to China to help oversee the manufacturing operations


17

00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,320

for the company. And so at that time, I joined the company, I started off as their director of


18

00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:48,720

communications and director of human resources because, you know, in a startup, everyone has to


19

00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:56,240

do multiple jobs. So I did that for a little while and it was incredibly impactful, incredibly


20

00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:02,800

meaningful. And it was very intense. So not only were we working very long days trying to solve


21

00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:09,200

this massive problem of 1.3 billion people in the world not having access to grid electricity,


22

00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,720

but we were also living in a foreign country. I'm ethnically Chinese, but I was born in the U.S.


23

00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:21,200

and so China felt like a very different place to me. And so it was a lot, it was a lot of stress.


24

00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:28,880

And I ended up totally burning out. And because of that, then I started journaling. So I started


25

00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,680

journaling just to process a lot of what had happened to try to understand what was happening


26

00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:40,480

within me and why I had responded the way I did to the circumstances around me. And through that,


27

00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:47,520

I discovered how healing and meaningful writing was for me. So then that started a whole new


28

00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:53,040

career path for me, which is writing. So I'm writing professionally for more than 10 years now,


29

00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:58,560

have also been doing editing as well. And so I have a bunch of articles and essays published,


30

00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:05,040

have three books published. And then now I am currently serving as the editorial director


31

00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:12,080

of a faith-based nonprofit called PAX. And what I love about this role is it actually marries


32

00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:17,680

a lot of what I love. So I get to be back in the nonprofit sector working for justice,


33

00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:24,240

but also getting to work with words and write and work with other writers and artists,


34

00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,840

which is wonderful. Well, it sounds like a really cool story that you have. Could you tell us a


35

00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:36,000

little bit about why you got into nonprofit at such a young age? Because I think that most people


36

00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,680

would usually start out in the corporate world, but for you, you went straight into a nonprofit.


37

00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:53,040

So I think part of it is that I am just a very empathic person. So I think those of us who are


38

00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:59,440

born particularly empathic, and there's also a category of people called highly sensitive people.


39

00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:07,520

So I can't myself as one of them as well, where you just really connect and identify with others.


40

00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,960

And I think particularly when others are having a hard time, when they're suffering,


41

00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:20,320

when something unfair and unjust has happened, you can't help but feel some measure of emotional


42

00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:28,080

investment and wanting to try to address that and try to do what you can to make things better.


43

00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:34,720

I also had the benefit of some really fantastic opportunities and professors and peers in college


44

00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:41,760

who really inspired me. So my sophomore year in college, I spent a week. So it was called an


45

00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:47,040

alternative spring break project where over spring break, instead of taking a vacation,


46

00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:52,400

you actually do a service learning trip. And so we went to downtown San Francisco,


47

00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,880

lived there and served there for one week and really looked very intensively at the


48

00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,760

topic of homelessness and people who are not. And why is this the case? What are the challenges?


49

00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:11,920

What are the possible solutions? And I think from there, it just made me realize, wow, I think


50

00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,560

these are the kinds of things that I want to work on. Like everything that I have been given,


51

00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,680

my education, the opportunities, my immigrant parents worked super hard to get me to where I


52

00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:28,160

am today. I would love to be able to give back to others and to ensure that others also have


53

00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:37,280

similar opportunities and have the chance to fulfill their potential and pursue what they most love to do.


54

00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:42,240

But you say you encountered any particular difficulties in the non-profit sector?


55

00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:48,240

Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm just fancy. Non-profit sector is full of difficulties.


56

00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,920

The burnout rate in the non-profit sector is something like 50%.


57

00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:59,360

Even higher than the corporate world, you think? Possibly so because you're working incredibly


58

00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:05,200

long hours, you're getting severely underpaid by making less than 10% of what people in the


59

00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,960

corporate world make. And everyone's wearing multiple hats doing multiple jobs because there


60

00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:17,520

are just never enough resources to go around. And you're surrounded by, you're just constantly in


61

00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:26,160

the thick of it in these really challenging thorny questions that are causing real people a lot of


62

00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:35,040

pain. And so there's this emotional energy that you need to use as well just to care for yourself,


63

00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:40,960

to care for the people around you. And so it's very common for people to just become exhausted


64

00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:46,720

because there's so much to be done and not enough people to do it. And you yourself might be


65

00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:54,800

struggling to pay the bills or even time to rest. And so that's really challenging. I love


66

00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,920

the non-profit sector and I think there are a lot of things about the sector that we can do to make


67

00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:08,080

it a more sustainable place to work. Is there any reason why it seems the non-profit sector is quite


68

00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:15,440

understaffed aside from funding issues? I'm not sure, do you think it's because of a labor shortage


69

00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:22,400

or are there any other reasons why that might be the case? Oh goodness, well, this is getting into


70

00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:31,120

macroeconomics which is not right. Yeah, yeah, sorry about that. I think funding is a huge, I mean,


71

00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:38,160

that's sort of the bottom line challenge of pretty much every non-profit is being able to access a


72

00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:43,760

regular stream of funding. And then without that funding, it's hard to retain people, it's hard to


73

00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,640

attract people. And then as I was saying with this high burnout rate, you have a lot of turnover.


74

00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,680

And so even if you have these great people coming into the industry, they're not necessarily going


75

00:07:53,680 --> 00:08:01,760

to stay. So I think a good number, probably like half of those people who burn out, I believe a study


76

00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:07,040

was done, half of them just leave the non-profit sector altogether because it's too difficult.


77

00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:14,560

So I think there are plenty of people who want to do this kind of work. But can we actually pay


78

00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:21,520

them what they're worth? Can we pay the hours and the weight of the work a little bit more


79

00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:28,960

humane, it's sustainable? And can we find the funding to make it all stay afloat and keep going


80

00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:35,280

without stress on everyone? So I think you mentioned that you had, you experienced burnout


81

00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:41,680

when you were in China. That happened also before you went to China or like, did it happen


82

00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:49,200

because of that? Yeah, yeah, unfortunately, I was on a pretty regular cycle of burning out


83

00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:54,960

like every two years. So I thought, I thought it was the jobs, you know, and just something that it


84

00:08:54,960 --> 00:09:00,960

was. And then I think a lot of it was also me in that I had very high expectations of myself. I,


85

00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:07,200

as much as, you know, there was to do in my roles, I felt like I had to do even more because the


86

00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,520

stakes are so high, right? It can feel like life or death, it feels like, you know, so many people


87

00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:17,920

are counting on me. And I guess it is life or death sometimes. It can be, yeah. And, but at the


88

00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:25,040

same time, I think, you know, there is this unhealthy mentality that a lot of us who work in


89

00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:31,200

social justice can, can develop, which is the sense of like, it's all on me. And like, I don't do it,


90

00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,200

no one will or I can't fix this and no one can. And the reality is that none of us are that big and


91

00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:42,720

that important, you know, we play our part, we should be faithful to play our part. But, but we


92

00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,720

do this together, we do it in community, we depend on one another. And if there's something that I


93

00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:55,600

can't do, then I should look to somebody else to pick it up, you know, I think it's almost this,


94

00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:02,240

in there's this weird kind of ego in it, where, where you make yourself out to be more important


95

00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:07,280

than you are, that you alone can change the world and make everything better and fix all the problems.


96

00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,440

And that's just not the case. Again, I think you find your place, you do your part to the best of


97

00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,320

your ability. And then you recognize that there's a lot, there's a lot that I can't do. And so I


98

00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:25,120

think it wasn't until I started to understand that, and it took a long time, which is why I kept


99

00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,240

burning out over and over again. And the burnout in China was definitely by far the worst one,


100

00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:36,080

because I, you know, spiraled into a very deep depression for quite a number of months, couldn't


101

00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:43,680

work, couldn't really do much more than sleep and journal really. And, but, but at that point,


102

00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:49,360

that was when I started to realize the way that I have been functioning is not working. And I have


103

00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:56,000

to do something completely different. I guess I'm quite fascinated when you said you came to a


104

00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:03,200

sudden, you know, realization that, you know, what you were doing isn't working, because it, you know,


105

00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,120

it takes quite a lot of time to actually ref, a lot of guts as well to reflect on what you did


106

00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,400

wrong and admit your mistakes. So could you share a little bit about how you came to this


107

00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,440

realization and how you coped with burnout? Because I guess that's something that a lot of


108

00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:26,320

other viewers or even, you know, people not viewing our channel, you know, would suffer on a daily


109

00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:34,720

basis. Yeah, Birdo is very serious and it's very real. So many people go through it. You know, for me,


110

00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,080

I think one of the mistakes I made was that I didn't pay attention to the early sides of it.


111

00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:45,760

So when I had those initial few burnouts, they were a little bit more minor, you know, so I would


112

00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:53,760

feel a lot of anxiety. I'd have trouble sleeping at night. I have my heart would be racing a lot of


113

00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,880

times and I just ignored it, especially because I was young also, I was in my early mid 20s. And so


114

00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:05,120

you have this sense of like, whatever, I can do anything, I'm fine, I'm healthy. And I didn't pay


115

00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:10,560

attention to that. So when I would leave one stressful job, I would just move into the next


116

00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:17,360

stressful job. And wasn't very intentional about thinking about, is this really going to be a


117

00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,920

place, you know, as good as the work is that they're doing, is this really going to be a place where


118

00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:29,600

I can cultivate some sense of balance in my life, sense of it's okay to take breaks, it's okay to


119

00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:37,360

to leave some of those burdens at work and not carry them home. And so then by the time it


120

00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:44,160

happened to me in China, it was so serious that it almost did feel like a life or death thing for


121

00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:52,160

me personally, of if I don't change this, I am maybe never going to be able to work again.


122

00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:59,680

And you know, work is something that gives many of us a lot of purpose. And so you don't,


123

00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,680

yeah, I mean, ideally, you don't want to get to that place where all you can do is


124

00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:14,800

Yeah. So, you know, what was challenging at the time was that I was living in China and not in


125

00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:20,400

Beijing or Shanghai, not those like major metropolitan cities. What's that?


126

00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,640

Like in one of the smallest cities.


127

00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,480

Well, you know, I should say it was still a large city. I lived in Shenzhen.


128

00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:28,160

Okay, okay.


129

00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:35,440

Still a large city, but at the time, you know, sort of like an up and coming city and very few foreigners.


130

00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,520

So there were just very limited resources for me, like, I don't know that I could have found a


131

00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,240

therapist. That's what I had done previously. When I had had previous burnouts, I would go,


132

00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,960

you know, meet with a therapist for a few months, even a year or two. And that was always very,


133

00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:57,440

very helpful. I couldn't do that from China. But what I did do was I connected with a friend


134

00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:02,400

back home in the US. And she and I had weekly phone calls where we would just check in with each


135

00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:07,840

other and have very honest conversations about what's going on. How are you processing things?


136

00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:15,440

She was an incredible friend to me. And then I also got connected to someone who is called a


137

00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:21,760

spiritual director who was here in in the US as well. And this was a time of Skype. So we were


138

00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,840

on Skype. And I think it was one of the first times she had ever used Skype. She had had,


139

00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:31,440

you know, never had a client who was in a different country. And but it was that was also


140

00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:38,320

really helpful for just giving me insight. She would ask lots of good questions and giving me


141

00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:44,000

insight into what's going on like deep in my soul, you know, not just kind of the surface level


142

00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:50,400

struggles, which I could talk about for days on end. And she she kind of, you know, also helped


143

00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:56,480

give me insight on, but this is who you are. And, you know, that was when I was first introduced


144

00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:05,360

to the Enneagram, you know, which is this personality type. And it that was actually


145

00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:12,240

incredibly helpful for me to recognize, okay, this is who I am. As a result, you know, this is


146

00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:18,720

what's hard for me. This is what works for me. And also, that's okay. You know, I don't need to be


147

00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,680

a different kind of person. I don't need to try to force myself to be a certain way.


148

00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,040

Because doing that hasn't been working for me. So I need to be authentic to who I am,


149

00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:35,840

and really understand that and let give myself time and space to heal, and then go pursue something


150

00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:44,480

that that not only is meaningful, but but feeds my soul. Right, right. I guess, you know, in


151

00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:50,080

modern day society, a lot of people work primarily for money, which is totally understandable.


152

00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:56,160

But you mentioned a good point about, you know, feeding your soul. Because I guess this is something


153

00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:03,040

that society overlooked quite often. Based on your personal experience, are there any like,


154

00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:11,680

ways where people can maybe try and understand, you know, the inner self a bit more and maybe find


155

00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,760

more meaning, you know, in work aside from, you know, monetary compensations.


156

00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,280

Yeah, well, obviously, we all need money to live.


157

00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,280

Yeah, I'm happy to answer that.


158

00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:29,120

Yes. But I think it's also understanding that money ultimately, it's a tool, right?


159

00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:39,440

Yeah. And it helps us get access to other things and to live at a certain quality of life standard.


160

00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,120

But but there are very, very significant limitations to what money can provide.


161

00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:53,040

And, you know, there have been studies done where people will always if you ask someone like,


162

00:16:53,040 --> 00:17:00,320

how much money do you need to be completely content? It is very typical, like the average


163

00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,280

person will always like double their current salary and say like, if I just had two times more


164

00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,760

money making now, then I will be perfectly content and I'll have everything I need.


165

00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,600

But the interesting thing is that once you reach that amount, like let's say you do,


166

00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,880

you know, you work hard, you get to that point where you have double your salary.


167

00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,560

And you want to double it again.


168

00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,560

Exactly. If someone asks you that same question again, you would say the same answer,


169

00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:29,760

oh, I need double what I have. And so I think just to recognize that there are desires within us


170

00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,680

that can never be met by money. I mean, money has its purpose.


171

00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:42,320

Absolutely. But but there are other things that that we need to surround ourselves with


172

00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:51,920

to give us that sense of meaning. And that will, I think for most people, you know, money is what


173

00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,120

gets us out of bed in the morning, right? And gets us excited to go to work. It's this idea that


174

00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:02,640

I can do something meaningful that I can change somebody's life or I can make something better


175

00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:08,160

or I can add something really beautiful and creative to the world that wasn't previously there.


176

00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:16,640

And and those are the kinds of things that, you know, we recently had a death in the family.


177

00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,840

And so it's made me think a lot about, you know, in your last days, what is it? What is it that


178

00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:29,920

you want to be remembered for? What is it that you how is it that you'd want to celebrate your life


179

00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:37,840

as you're passing, you know, and I don't imagine any of us would like want to be on our deathbed,


180

00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,280

just like drowning in cash, right? You are your deathbed. You want to be with the people you love,


181

00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:50,880

you want to you want to celebrate, you know, what the good and the beautiful things that that you


182

00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:56,240

see around you and that you've been able to experience. Well, sorry to hear about your


183

00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,600

death in your family, but thank you. Again, I think it's a great point you mentioned about, you know,


184

00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:09,120

what people want to be remembered for after they die, because a lot of people don't really


185

00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:14,480

spend a lot of time thinking about it. And you have have do you think you've reached a stage


186

00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,960

yet where you think you're more concerned perhaps about your legacy than you know what you do, you


187

00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:30,320

know, at the present day, maybe? Well, I would like to say the caveat that I don't think I'm that old.


188

00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:45,600

Hopefully I'm not near my deathbed yet. But I think, you know, my there's there's a couple things.


189

00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,040

And this is going to look different for everyone. This is very much my personal story. But


190

00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,800

I lost my father when I was very young. I was only 14 years old when he passed. And so I think


191

00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,800

that


192

00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:13,440

big of a loss at such a young age really shaped me in terms of recognizing that


193

00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:21,920

life doesn't last forever, and that things can end much more quickly than you might think.


194

00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:31,840

And so there is something to be said about living like you don't have as much time as you might


195

00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:38,240

expect. And so how do you make the most of the time that you have? And of course, none of us know


196

00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:48,160

exactly when we're going to go. So so I think that that has been a very significant thing in shaping


197

00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:57,440

how I think and how I think about life and death. I think also, you know, my faith just


198

00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:07,600

instills in me this sense of eternity, that that people are eternal beings with eternal


199

00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:15,040

sense. And and as such, what what matters most are the things that are eternal and not the things


200

00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:22,320

that are fleeting. And so for me, then, that is a lot of what we've been talking about. It is


201

00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:30,080

caring for other people. It is cultivating the really wonderful and beautiful things around us


202

00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:40,960

and trying to make this world a little bit more bright and just and good. And, you know, in hopes


203

00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,880

that those are the kinds of things that that will last far beyond my single lifetime.


204

00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:53,040

So you mentioned, you know, you finding a passion in writing during, you know, your


205

00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,080

burnt out years, I guess, in China, and you've since been doing that, you know, for a long time.


206

00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,760

What gives you the most meaning or joy in writing, you think?


207

00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:12,880

Yeah. Well, I think like many artists, there's just something in me that loves to create, you know,


208

00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,520

actually, I think probably most people have that in them and it comes out in different ways. So for


209

00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,960

me, it's writing, you know, for others, I'd be painting or innovating or, you know, gardening.


210

00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:30,960

And and so there is just the satisfaction that I, you know, as a writer, I feel like I should be


211

00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:38,160

able to describe it, but of being able to put into words the human experience in such a way


212

00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:46,800

that can be communicated and transmitted to others. You know, at the heart of writing, I think,


213

00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,000

is storytelling, whether it's nonfiction or fiction, I happen to write mostly nonfiction.


214

00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:01,280

But but in both regards, it's it's telling the stories of who we are as humans and what it is to


215

00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:10,560

live on this earth, you know, at this moment in time. And and so in that storytelling, there's this


216

00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:18,160

rich sense of connection with, I think, the sort of universal human experience, but also connection


217

00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:25,120

with other individual people. You know, when I get to I've done some journalism. And so when I get


218

00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:30,960

to interview people and share their story in an article, there is this particular connection


219

00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,000

that I feel with that person of like, now I know some of your story, now I know some of who you


220

00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,720

are. And it feels like a privilege to be able to share that with other people. And there's a lot


221

00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:50,000

of writing that is solitary, but but I get to be part of, you know, some really rich and wonderful


222

00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,440

communities of writers where we're all supporting each other. And I occasionally hear feedback


223

00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,960

from people who've read my work, like yourself, and, and that's really, really meaningful, because,


224

00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,000

you know, I don't think we would have met, right? If I had written it and put it out there, it's my


225

00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,520

great power. Yeah, so it's a great opportunity to connect with others. And I think that's a great


226

00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,680

opportunity to connect with others. And I think just to help build empathy in the world, like,


227

00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,520

help us all to understand one another a little bit better and to hopefully then care for each


228

00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:29,840

other more. So finally, before we end the interview, I know that you are, you know, the director,


229

00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:37,360

the editorial director of, you know, Made for Blacks. So usually we ask our guests if they are,


230

00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:43,360

you know, recruiting or hiring any people. And if that's the case, could you maybe tell us a little


231

00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:47,600

bit about perhaps your company and, you know, if you would be hiring, you know, in the future?


232

00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,520

Yeah, we're a pretty small nonprofit. There's there's only six of us on the team where I hope


233

00:24:53,520 --> 00:25:01,520

they're not burnt out. I think we're doing okay. So I would say this is probably the healthiest


234

00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,120

organization I've ever been a part of, which is saying a lot. I really give a lot of credit to


235

00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:14,720

our executive director for being very intentional about making sure that we take time off when we


236

00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,360

need to. We actually create a lot of space in our team meetings to check in with each other to,


237

00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:26,080

you know, because we're a faith based nonprofit. So we even engage in spiritual practices together


238

00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,440

in our team meetings. And by the way, this is all over Zoom because we're remote, we're spread


239

00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:37,120

out across the country in the US, but but it's still a really beautiful way to connect with one


240

00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:45,760

another and build that relationship. And so Pax is a nonprofit that really hopes to inspire and


241

00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:55,360

equip the Christian church to pursue peace and justice. And we particularly want to elevate


242

00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:03,440

and equip people of color because those are groups that have been historically marginalized


243

00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,920

with the church and have not been fully empowered and, you know, given enough leadership and


244

00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:17,200

respect. So we do that through creating a lot of different content. We have guides, we have an


245

00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:24,960

online publication, we have curriculum. We're also launching a young adult fellowship for,


246

00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,400

you know, it's great that we're having this conversation about about career and, you know,


247

00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:36,400

meaning and vocation because our fellowship for young adults ages 20 to 35 is all about


248

00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:43,280

figuring out what is your calling? What is your vocation? And how do you continue to find meaning


249

00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,800

and integrate, you know, if you are a person who cares deeply about a more just world,


250

00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,440

how do you integrate those values into your work? So that's something that we're launching this fall


251

00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:00,080

that we're really excited about. So those are some of the projects and programs that we have going on.


252

00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:08,080

I believe you are hiring an executive assistant. So if someone... I can include a link, you know,


253

00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:16,560

in the description. Sure, yeah, yeah. So I could say it's a fantastic team. And, you know, if not


254

00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,640

this role, there may be other ones in the future, or you're definitely welcome to check out our


255

00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:27,840

fellowship. We're looking for folks who want to be a part of a learning cohort for six months and


256

00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,080

really seriously delve into these questions of what does it look like to find meaningful work


257

00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:40,880

that is authentic to who I am. Well, thanks. Thanks so much for the interview today. And,


258

00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:51,120

you know, wish you all the success in your career. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a great conversation.



1 view0 comments

Bình luận


bottom of page